Interview with Frank Lindh

From Cageprisoners…

Frank and his son, John, in New York City. Courtesy of Frank Lindh.

In an exclusive interview with Cageprisoners, the father of John Walker Lindh, Frank Lindh, discusses his son’s story. John Lindh, an American Muslim convert, was captured in Afghanistan in December 2001. Northern Alliance and US forces subsequently subjected Lindh to inhumane treatment and torture. After a malicious media campaign against Lindh, Lindh was sentenced to twenty years imprisonment in the US. Now, his one hope of legal recourse is a presidential commutation of his sentence.

cAGEPRISONERS: Let’s begin with the obvious: how is John doing? How is his morale? He does he occupy his time?

FRANK LINDH: Actually I’m restricted in my ability to answer that question because John has been placed under a gag order. It’s called “special administrative measures.” It was not part of his plea bargain. It was something that was imposed by the government separately. It provides that those of us who have direct contact with John are not allowed to communicate directly or indirectly with other people about things that John tells us. But I can say, in general terms, that John is doing very well. He is keeping good spirits. He remains very devout in his devotion to Islam, and he is very committed to his studies. More than that I really can’t say.

CP: Where is John currently held and under what conditions? Has he been in solitary confinement? How has his treatment varied in the different prisons, both by the prison administration as well as by the other inmates?

Present Prison Conditions

FL: Again, we’re careful, and we’re actually not commenting about that very much. I would say his current situation, relatively speaking, is humane. It’s not something that we would complain about. He was put in solitary confinement for some period of time last year. He was confined at the Super-Max Prison, as they call it, in Colorado. But since then he’s been moved to a different facility.
 There are a lot of restrictions on John that we’re disappointed about. For example, our family visits are limited to only four hours per month. And we are not permitted to have contact visits with him where we can embrace him. We have to be behind glass and talk through a telephone and so forth. But on the whole, the conditions of his confinement are, at this point, humane and we’re not actively seeking to change them—other than to get him out of prison entirely.

CP: Is it possible for you to provide John’s current prison address so people can write to him? Or would this violate his gag order? 
FL: Unfortunately, the government has imposed a condition on John’s imprisonment prohibiting him from receiving mail from anyone other than his family and attorneys.

CP: To backtrack a bit, do you mind talking a little about John’s initial captivity in Afghanistan, under what conditions was he held over there and in the US ships which were used to detain prisoners?

Capture in Afghanistan

FL: Okay, well, John was very fortunate to survive what occurred in Afghanistan. He was there in the Army of Afghanistan in 2001 before the 9/11 attacks in the United States. A month after the 9/11 attacks, the United States invaded Afghanistan. John had the misfortune of falling into the hands of a Northern Alliance warlord named General Rashid Dostum, who was a former Soviet collaborator and a horrific human rights violator who has the notorious reputation for killing and torturing prisoners. John was very fortunate to survive having fallen into the hands of this communist warlord from the North. Many thousands of Taliban prisoners from the Afghan army were massacred by General Dostum and his troops in the late period of December of 2001, the very time that John came into his custody. John did survive. He was wounded and very close to death, but he was able to survive.

Prisoner Treatment: American Style

And then he came into the custody of the American forces. Dostum turned John over to the American forces after he was picked up, I think, largely because the media had been there and noticed that John was there. His presence among the Taliban prisoners as an American citizen came to their attention. I think because of that media attention Dostum was not at liberty to simply kill John the way he did the many other prisoners. So John was turned over to American custody. Then, however, after coming into American custody, he was subjected to really horrific abuse by the American troops in Afghanistan.
 This is a painful subject for me to talk about. His wounds were left untreated, he was stripped naked, and placed into an unheated metal shipping container in the desert in Afghanistan in the wintertime and kept in this condition, strapped to a gurney for several days. And then after that he was questioned by the FBI. Eventually he was given humane treatment aboard an American navy ship a week or two after he came into United States custody. But for that first week or so he was placed under conditions that I think would constitute torture by any ordinary definition of that term.

CP: Can you talk about John’s trial, the plea bargain and sentencing?

Government & Media: Slander & Hysteria

To understand John’s case, first you have to understand that it was the subject of extraordinary media attention in the United States and I guess throughout the world. His image was put on the first page of every newspaper in the United States and many of the leading news magazines. It was also covered extensively on television networks and so forth. And all the coverage of his case was extremely biased and emphasized—or alleged—that John was a terrorist and that John somehow had been involved in the 9/11 attacks. And this was not just the media. The very highest officials of the United States Government made comments to that affect in the media: The President, the Vice President, the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of State Collin Powell, and many United States senators and others went on television and said all these things about John: That he was a terrorist, that he conspired to kill thousands of Americans and so forth—all very inflammatory and prejudicial statements that were made by high government officials against this young man.
It’s really an unprecedented case in the history of the United States where one single individual was subjected to so much prejudicial commentary by powerful government officials. For example, the Attorney General of the United States at that time, John Ashcroft, conducted two nationally televised press conferences in which he repeated these allegations against my son and just contributed to this extremely heated atmosphere in which it was impossible then for John to obtain a fair trial back in the United States.

Right to an Unfair Trial & Partial Jury
So when John was brought back to the United States, they deliberately brought him back to Virginia near the Pentagon, where the Pentagon had been bombed in the 9/11 attacks. They brought him to a court there where he was almost certain not to obtain a fair trial. The jury pool was so prejudice against John because they had come to believe that he was involved in the 9/11 attacks. At the time there were polls that had been done in the media that showed that something like 70 % of the people in the United States thought that John Lindh should be put to death. Even among liberals and other political moderates there were a huge number of people that thought that John, at a minimum, should be sentenced to life in prison. It was very clear from these polls, from these data, that it was not possible for John at the time to obtain a fair trial anywhere in the United States, but especially in Northern Virginia just adjacent to the Pentagon.

The Sentencing: Vengeance & Vindication
He was really just fortunate, I think, in that atmosphere, to be able to extract a plea bargain from the American Government by which all the terrorism related charges were dropped by the government. In return, John was forced to accept the twenty-year prison sentence, a very long and very harsh prison sentence for only one actual conviction. The only crime, so to speak, he was convicted of was that he was alleged to have violated the trade sanctions imposed by the American Government against the Taliban Government of Afghanistan by his volunteering for the service in the Afghan army. So, as a result of violating these trade sanctions, John received a twenty-year prison sentence.

I think it’s clear however, if I can add, that the twenty-year sentence is really a proxy for the fact that the government was forced to drop all the terrorism related charges after having gotten the population worked up and convinced that John was a terrorist and was involved in terrorism. There was this sort of vindication thing where people felt that John had to receive a very lengthy prison sentence regardless of the facts, simply to satisfy that vengeance that the government had stirred up against him.  

CP: How did this hyped-up, negative atmosphere affect you? How, do you think, did it affect John?
FL: Well, I think I can say without violating the gag order that John himself was somewhat isolated from it because he was in Government custody without contact with his family. They kept him in custody for 54 days aboard the navy ship and so forth before they brought him back. During that time John had almost no exposure to what we were seeing back here in the United States—this daily coverage on the television and in the newspapers. Most of that occurred without John’s awareness.

Heartbreak at Home
But for us, as his family, it was extremely painful and difficult. I mean, we were trying to make contact with our son to reassure him that we loved him and supported him and that we had hired lawyers to help represent him. But the government was not allowing our messages to get through to him. Our letters were blocked and so forth. Meanwhile, we were forced to leave our home here because of the media—the television cameras and so forth. This was quite an extraordinarily publicized case here in the United States. It is hard to describe now what it was like—sort of a circus atmosphere—in which John was treated as if he was a terrorist, as if he had somehow worked with Osama bin Ladin to carry out these attacks against the United States. So the media—they had cameras in front of our home and so forth—it was just extremely distressing to try to put up with that.

The Strength to Stand Up
But at the same time I think we felt, in a sense, a kind of strength because we had to stand up for our son. He is in fact completely innocent. He’s a traditional Muslim. He has no sympathy for terrorism whatsoever. He never had any involvement with terrorism at all. And, as a parent, when someone accuses your child falsely of some heinous crime it leads to a sort of instinctual response that you have to defend your child. And so I think the reaction that John’s mother and I both had was that even though it was distressing for us, I think we felt somewhat galvanized and strengthened by the need just to stand up and defend John as best we could against this enormously overwhelming coverage in the media and by these politicians that were saying all these terrible things about our son. It was very stressful and very difficult.

CP: It’s been over six years since his capture, we’ve now had the benefit of hearing some other US detainee stories and scandals, and the country has gone through a change in climate, since the time of John’s arrest; all this considered, is there any hope of a retrial or early release for John?

In the President’s Hands
FL: I think you’re correct, I think the atmosphere in the United States is very different today from what it was in that period in late 2001, which was only 3 months after the 9/11 attacks, when John was first discovered. I think that John’s prospects today for a fair trial would be much different than they were back in 2001. However, he did agree to a plea bargain in which he accepted a guilty plea on the charge of aiding the Taliban in violation of the trade sanctions. He is now serving this prison sentence.

His only legal recourse at this juncture is the President’s pardon power. John has asked the President of the United States for a commutation of his sentence: That would be an early release from the twenty-year prison sentence. John has now served six years in prison. His petition asks the President simply to release him at this point. It does not request a pardon from any charges. It simply asks that he be released from prison.

The Call for Commutation

In support of this, his attorneys point to the fact that other young men in very similar circumstances to John’s have already been released and sent home to their parents. Yasir Hamdi is one such case. He survived the same massacre of prisoners where John was. He was apprehended exactly on the same day that John was. Yasir Hamdi is a Saudi Arabian and had at the time dual US citizenship so he was brought back to the United States. His case eventually went to the United States Supreme Court. The Supreme Court held that the government had to give Mr. Hamdi some sort of a hearing in order to determine whether he was a so-called “enemy combatant” or not. Then the United States Government, after the Supreme Court decision, simply released Hamdi and sent him home without any charges whatsoever. Hamdi is now free and living with his family in Saudi Arabia.

Another case that John’s attorneys have cited is the case of David Hicks. He is a young Australian who was picked up in Afghanistan in December 2001. Hicks last March, March 2007, negotiated a plea bargain before a military tribunal in Guantanamo Bay. And under his plea bargain David Hicks was sent home to Australia. He served only nine months of imprisonment there and has now been released to his family. So based on the disparate outcome there, where our son John received a twenty-year prison sentence, and these other two individuals have been sent home to their families after a relatively short time, based on that disparity and outcome, John has requested that the President commute his sentence and allow him to come home to his family.

CP: How likely do you think this would be?
FL: Most presidential commutation requests are not granted. So I think we have to acknowledge that it’s a long shot. There was so much hysteria about John’s case that it makes it difficult. But I remain hopeful. I believe, as Martin Luther King said, that the arch of the universe bends inevitably in the direction of justice. I believe in that principle and I think that ultimately the injustice in John Lindh’s prison sentence will come to the fore and that he will be allowed to leave prison. I think it may occur under this president. If it doesn’t occur under this president then I’m confident it will occur under a different president in the future. There is no conceivable justification for John Lindh to be in prison at all. I think eventually that the injustice of the situation will come to light. I think eventually some president, if not this president, will recognize that and grant his commutation.

CP: What is the present release date for John? And will they give him parole?

FL: There is no longer any parole in the U.S. federal government prison system. Under the terms of his plea bargain, John’s 20-year sentence was deemed to have commenced as of the date of his capture in Afghanistan, December 1, 2001. Because he can gain time off of his sentence for good behavior, John’s release date, according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, could occur as early as May 2019.

CP: Has the public sentiment toward your son changed over the years and how? Do you feel like John has a good amount of support from the society now, or do you think it’s still insufficient? 
FL: I think it depends on where you speak. I think if you speak about the United States it’s very difficult for John to recover from the extremely defamatory coverage of his case that was perpetuated by the media and the politicians of the United States. So, I don’t know that John’s reputation here in the United States can ever be restored. It was so badly damaged. You have to put yourself back in that timeframe when you have these very high government officials, one after another, repeatedly, day after day, going on television and saying the John Lindh is a terrorist. In this emotional period right after 9/11 it had a huge impact on people’s impressions. And so, I’m not really sure that John will be able to recover his reputation and be recognized for what he is—which is just a young man who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but nevertheless had good motives. I’m not sure that can occur in the US. I hope, but I’m not sure it can.

John in Ireland, 1998. Courtesy of Frank Lindh.

On the other hand, I think that in Europe and in other countries around the world that also witnessed this coverage of John’s case at that time, there is probably a very different response. I think most people in the world living outside the United States recognized it for what it was, even at the time. I think they realized that it was a kind of pogrom against this young man. It was a campaign of hatred against this young man who was guilty of nothing really. So I think there is a sense of injustice among people in other countries, but I’m not confident that the injustice has taken root here in the United States beyond a small percentage of the population.
CP: How have you found the American Muslim community’s response to your son’s plight in general?

 
FL: Individual Muslims have shown extraordinary sympathy and understanding about our son’s case. In my personal encounters with Muslim people, both men and women, they almost invariably assure me that they have been praying for John and his welfare. This has been a great source of comfort for me and for John’s mother and brother and sister.

A Muslim Community Failure
On the other hand, what I would call the “organized” Muslim community—organizations that exist to advocate for the rights and perspectives of Muslim people in the United States—has been almost entirely silent about the injustice that occurred in our son’s case. This is puzzling and somewhat disappointing to me.

CP: No doubt this entire ordeal with John has affected you on many levels. Can you tell us some ways it has affected your personal life, your professional life? Have you faced any harassment as a result? How have your family and friends reacted to you since John’s arrest?

Paradoxical Realities

FL: Actually, I have to say, notwithstanding the extremely negative media coverage of John’s case and so forth, on a personal level people have been very kind to me and to John’s mother and his sister and brother. Throughout this entire time I have never had any person anywhere in the United States ever harass me or be mean-spirited in a personal sense. People are very sympathetic. People ask me—sometimes they see me on the street and recognize me from the newspaper or whatever—and the question people always ask is, how is your son? People say things like we support your son. Marilyn, John’s mother, has had very similar experiences. So it’s interesting that ordinary people have a kind of sympathetic response to John’s case, recognizing that he was unfairly victimized by this propaganda campaign. So we have not had any negative experiences with people we’ve encountered on a day-to-day basis. All of our friends, all of our family, people in our community, are very sympathetic. I think they recognize that John was the victim of something beyond his control.
 So there was a very sympathetic response among ordinary people here in the United States even at the same time as we had these terrible stories going on about John in the media. A bit of a dichotomy between the media coverage of John and what the polls were saying about John on the one hand vs. how ordinary people seemed to respond to us about his case.

The Big Bang
Marilyn calls it the Big Bang. I mean it really altered our lives. It’s something that never leaves your mind when your son—or your brother in the case of his siblings—when a loved one is accused like this, falsely accused of involvement in a terrible crime, the terrorist attacks that occurred in this country. It’s heartbreaking. And it never leaves your mind. I just constantly live with that. Marilyn does too. We just live with this terrible sense of injustice.

CP: How do you think you’ve copied with it all, and particularly how do you think John has?

A Forerunner of Faith

FL: Well, I can say for certain that John’s ability to cope with all of this—and not just this media stuff, but also the physical ordeal he was put through—John has passed through all of that with remarkable grace and integrity. His outlook remains very positive. He is not bitter at all. I think that is because of his faith, his faith in God. For all of us, it’s been very difficult but we are, I think, fortified by the knowledge that John is in fact a completely innocent person. His motives for going to Afghanistan were idealistic and they were pure. I don’t think it was the right thing for him to do. He did not consult with me before going, but nevertheless he went with the best of intentions.
And we have that certainty, I think, that comes from knowing that he is really actually a noble person, a person of great integrity. We are very encouraged by the fact that his spirit is very good. His spirit was not broken by the ordeal he went through. He remains strong and optimistic and he is very committed to his studies and to his practice of his religion. So, I guess we are very pleased and happy and proud of the fact that John has come through all this with such a healthy response to it.

CP: I’m sure you are already aware of this, but your son has been an inspiration for a great number of people – his calm and dignified demeanour and patient character have been testimony to his goodness. Do you feel the ordeal he has had to endure over the years have helped him grow and strengthened him? Or have they been debilitating?
FL: I think his ordeals have strengthened him. It has drawn on his inner strength; it has required him to be strong. And he has been able to respond with a remarkable strength. It really defies your expectations that anyone could go through what he went through and come out of it with his integrity and his healthy mental state. So he has been, I think, strengthened by it. His resolve is very strong. His belief in God is very strong.

CP: If you can answer without breaking the gag order, what are John’s future aspirations and plans post release?

 FL: I think I can talk in general terms about that. John is very scholarly. He is very committed to being a good student. He’s always had the aspiration of becoming a teacher after completing his education. For now I think his focus is to try to pursue and complete his education: His understanding of Islam, and of many subjects, not just Islam, but also history, and the history of language. He is completely fluent in Arabic. So I think he would like to continue to pursue his studies and then eventually become a teacher.

John in Yemen. Courtesy of Frank Lindh.

CP: How has John’s legal, emotional and spiritual journey affected your own spirituality, your view of God? What have you learnt about Islam from this? What does Islam mean to you now?
FL: Ever since John’s conversion, I’ve always had a deep respect for Islam. I’m a Christian; I’m a Catholic. I go to mass every Sunday. Throughout John’s life I’ve always gone to Mass. When he was a child he’d attend the Catholic Mass with me. So, I’ve always had a strong belief in God myself. And I think like all people who practice religion, I think I gain a lot of serenity from the practice of my religion. I remain committed to my own religion. I believe that the Christian religion and Islamic religion both have a common understanding of Allah or of God, and so I still practiced my religion. And I think that it has helped me as much as John’s belief in God has helped him to sustain himself through his ordeal. I believe that my own faith in God has helped me pass through this difficult time, to continue to feel the presence of God in my life, and to feel the optimism that I feel that justice will eventually emerge in John’s case.

CP: So then you feel that the ordeal you’ve endured has actually strengthened your belief in God, not weakened it?
FL: Yes. I had it from before. I was practicing and believed in God from before John’s arrest. But, absolutely, since then my faith has helped me. When I read the Bible now I feel I have a deeper understanding of what John is going through. It’s given me stronger faith and belief in God.

CP: To wrap up then, do you have any message for our readers? What can concerned individuals do to assist John and your family?
FL: Well, I’d like to ask people to do two things. Number one, I’d like to ask that people keep John in their prayers. That they pray he continues to have the best of health and spirits despite his time in prison.

And secondly, I’d like to ask that people write a letter to the President asking him for the commutation of John’s imprisonment. John has served six years. Many others in similar situations have now been released. John’s imprisonment is unjust. I ask that people write, politely and respectfully, to the President and request that he release John as a dedication to justice and human rights.
CP: Frank Lindh, thank you for taking the time out to speak to us.
 

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